The Labour Party

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Burunman
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Burunman »

I felt Corbyn's manifesto was sound. It was just the backlash against left wing politics from the GP, we are seeing a return to almost McCarthyite levels of "he's a socialist who wants to destroy our way of life." From people, smears against Corbyn and the fact that BoJo appealed to patriotism in a shallow way.

I know that's a simplistic way of looking at it but sadly that's what happened IMO.

Who knows if we'll get 10 years of the Tories, but to be honest now that we are returning to a New Labour model, I sadly don't think it will make much difference. Corbyn was our last chance for a long, long while.
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MistressRani
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by MistressRani »

The last manifesto had too many policies that were pulled from nowhere - elections are won over months and years not weeks - the argument had not been made for free broadband which did have its merits but it came across as an election gimmick. Consequently it wasn't clear that Labour stood for anything other than free stuff for all. Combine that with a flawed leader who didn't have the skills a leader needs and it was all too easy for the Tories sadly.
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Rob Filth
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Rob Filth »

MistressRani wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:30 pm
The last manifesto had too many policies that were pulled from nowhere - elections are won over months and years not weeks - the argument had not been made for free broadband which did have its merits but it came across as an election gimmick. Consequently it wasn't clear that Labour stood for anything other than free stuff for all. Combine that with a flawed leader who didn't have the skills a leader needs and it was all too easy for the Tories sadly.
Rubbish.

Corbyn was far better than Grease My Palmer Starmer and his front bench of blairite saboteurs.

What they stood for under Corbyn was blatantly obvious and direct too, it's why the press prefered character assassination rather than focus on any of the policy proposals.

I haven't a clue what Starmer stands for other than wriggling his arse suggestively at Murdoch.
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MistressRani
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by MistressRani »

Rob Filth wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:13 pm
MistressRani wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:30 pm
The last manifesto had too many policies that were pulled from nowhere - elections are won over months and years not weeks - the argument had not been made for free broadband which did have its merits but it came across as an election gimmick. Consequently it wasn't clear that Labour stood for anything other than free stuff for all. Combine that with a flawed leader who didn't have the skills a leader needs and it was all too easy for the Tories sadly.
Rubbish.

Corbyn was far better than Grease My Palmer Starmer and his front bench of blairite saboteurs.

What they stood for under Corbyn was blatantly obvious and direct too, it's why the press prefered character assassination rather than focus on any of the policy proposals.

I haven't a clue what Starmer stands for other than wriggling his arse suggestively at Murdoch.
Starmer hasn't had a chance to develop his policies yet but has said he will stand by much of Corbyn's policies. One issue with Corbyn is that he had too much baggage that made him easy to attack - the media will always smear Labour leaders (see Starmer's field) but Corbyn was too easy. He also couldn't think on his feet - his performances at PMQs showed this. He was weak on anti-semitism. And this showed up on the doorstep - he was electoral poison - not all his fault of course - but he was never going to be elected.
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Bertrand Marx
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Bertrand Marx »

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:52 am
Rob Filth wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:13 pm
MistressRani wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:30 pm
The last manifesto had too many policies that were pulled from nowhere - elections are won over months and years not weeks - the argument had not been made for free broadband which did have its merits but it came across as an election gimmick. Consequently it wasn't clear that Labour stood for anything other than free stuff for all. Combine that with a flawed leader who didn't have the skills a leader needs and it was all too easy for the Tories sadly.
Rubbish.

Corbyn was far better than Grease My Palmer Starmer and his front bench of blairite saboteurs.

What they stood for under Corbyn was blatantly obvious and direct too, it's why the press prefered character assassination rather than focus on any of the policy proposals.

I haven't a clue what Starmer stands for other than wriggling his arse suggestively at Murdoch.
Starmer hasn't had a chance to develop his policies yet but has said he will stand by much of Corbyn's policies. One issue with Corbyn is that he had too much baggage that made him easy to attack - the media will always smear Labour leaders (see Starmer's field) but Corbyn was too easy. He also couldn't think on his feet - his performances at PMQs showed this. He was weak on anti-semitism. And this showed up on the doorstep - he was electoral poison - not all his fault of course - but he was never going to be elected.
Rani, have you seen the leaked Labour report?

As far as anti-semitism goes, the likes of McNicol and those within his circle repeatedly and deliberately sat on numerous cases of anti-semitism as a means of indulging in purging “filthy trots” and “trot hunting”, as documented by both the report’s findings and leaked messages which directly illuminate that numerous members on the right of the party were devastated by Corbyn’s 2017 success as they wanted him to receive an absolute hammering, which I find quite unforgivable given that they might as well have left the party. If he is “unelectable”, at least fucking try to supervise in him becoming electable as opposed to serving your own self-interests, which is what many on the right of the party chose to do.

Corbyn had his issues as you say, but it’s far from easy when a large chunk of your party hates you and wants to undermine you at every chance due to desperately wanting to adhere to the neoliberal status quo. Because how dare Labour return to its Keynesian roots- what a nasty communist!

The whole issue is multi-faceted, despite basically agreeing with you somewhat on the manifesto which was definitely overloaded and poorly structured (despite agreeing with it on principle). However, if such poor conduct from the right of the party hadn’t taken place prior to the 2017 election, he could have been all the more successful in that instance.

Your point about the media certainly stands though. It’s always been a melting pot for the absolute worst kinds of populism, political or otherwise.
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Rob Filth
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Rob Filth »

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:52 am
Starmer hasn't had a chance to develop his policies yet but has said he will stand by much of Corbyn's policies.
I'll believe that when I see it.

He's been useless during this pandemic neither supporting those who have been thrown into precarious positions by demanding UBI and rent freezes nor teachers who he's thrown into a precarious position by stupidly demanding a premature lift to lockdown because he's been too busy playing "Crown Court" re-enactments and politicking "Gotcha" games at the dispatch box whilst wriggling his backside at Murdoch and the media.

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:52 am
One issue with Corbyn is that he had too much baggage that made him easy to attack - the media will always smear Labour leaders (see Starmer's field) but Corbyn was too easy.
Corbyn wasn't "easy", he was a threat to the established unelected media oligarchy order in this country who are REALLY pulling all the strings. When he's actually given a proper right to reply which was mostly denied him within the media because they were so busy talking bollocks about him fabricating a thoroughly dishonest narrative about him(which included a hugely exaggerated and artificially constructed anti-semitism "crisis"), Corbyn usually rips his opponents to utter shreds as he more or less did at PMQ's each week which none of the media noticed or gave him the slightest credit for.

He oversaw over 40 u-turns and defeats including the largest Government defeat in Parliamentary history, oversaw two Tory PM's and came within a fraction of getting rid of a third when their majorities were stripped from them in the house and came within 3000 votes of winning the 2017 General Election.

He fully deserved to be PM and the backstabbing saboteur cunts on Starmer front bench not just let him and the party down, they let the country down.

They certainly don't deserve their elevated status and positions they are now all sitting in, they can fuck off and whistle for my vote, the self-serving greasy pole climbers. I'm not voting for Class traitors.
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:52 am
He also couldn't think on his feet - his performances at PMQs showed this. He was weak on anti-semitism. And this showed up on the doorstep - he was electoral poison - not all his fault of course - but he was never going to be elected.
Evidently you have swallowed much of the media's bent narrative about him because this is pure parroting bullshit, I suggest you read the leaked Labour report. The evidence within is horrifying. Starmer and his cronies are rotten and corrupt to their utter core.
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by MistressRani »

Rob Filth wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:29 am
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:52 am
Starmer hasn't had a chance to develop his policies yet but has said he will stand by much of Corbyn's policies.
I'll believe that when I see it.

He's been useless during this pandemic neither supporting those who have been thrown into precarious positions by demanding UBI and rent freezes nor teachers who he's thrown into a precarious position by stupidly demanding a premature lift to lockdown because he's been too busy playing "Crown Court" re-enactments and politicking "Gotcha" games at the dispatch box whilst wriggling his backside at Murdoch and the media.

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:52 am
One issue with Corbyn is that he had too much baggage that made him easy to attack - the media will always smear Labour leaders (see Starmer's field) but Corbyn was too easy.
Corbyn wasn't "easy", he was a threat to the established unelected media oligarchy order in this country who are REALLY pulling all the strings. When he's actually given a proper right to reply which was mostly denied him within the media because they were so busy talking bollocks about him fabricating a thoroughly dishonest narrative about him(which included a hugely exaggerated and artificially constructed anti-semitism "crisis"), Corbyn usually rips his opponents to utter shreds as he more or less did at PMQ's each week which none of the media noticed or gave him the slightest credit for.

He oversaw over 40 u-turns and defeats including the largest Government defeat in Parliamentary history, oversaw two Tory PM's and came within a fraction of getting rid of a third when their majorities were stripped from them in the house and came within 3000 votes of winning the 2017 General Election.

He fully deserved to be PM and the backstabbing saboteur cunts on Starmer front bench not just let him and the party down, they let the country down.

They certainly don't deserve their elevated status and positions they are now all sitting in, they can fuck off and whistle for my vote, the self-serving greasy pole climbers. I'm not voting for Class traitors.
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:52 am
He also couldn't think on his feet - his performances at PMQs showed this. He was weak on anti-semitism. And this showed up on the doorstep - he was electoral poison - not all his fault of course - but he was never going to be elected.
Evidently you have swallowed much of the media's bent narrative about him because this is pure parroting bullshit, I suggest you read the leaked Labour report. The evidence within is horrifying. Starmer and his cronies are rotten and corrupt to their utter core.
I don't disagree with the media's role but that's been true of all Labour leaders, certainly in my time. Corbyn's history just made him too easy a target - the left needed a more credible candidate - sorry he just wasn't.

As for his performances - I remember after the govt lost its first Brexit vote he gave a really weak performance even though everyone knew this moment was coming. Terrible. And those Tory defeats were only possible due to divisions in the Tory party, it wasn't as if he played a blinder.

His failure to even speak with female Jewish Labour MPs was unforgiveable and again too easy to paint him as weak on this issue.

Am I entitled to criticise Corbyn? Yes, I suspect I knocked on more doors to try to get him in power in both 2017 and 2019 than you did but having the door shut in my face to be told 'not voting for Corbyn' I have earned that right.
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Rob Filth
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Rob Filth »

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:04 pm
I don't disagree with the media's role but that's been true of all Labour leaders, certainly in my time. Corbyn's history just made him too easy a target - the left needed a more credible candidate - sorry he just wasn't.
I agree court libel action perhaps should have been sought against some of the newspapers particularly over the completely dishonest and fabricated wreath/honouring terrorists story, but it been done so Corbyn would then have been tied up engaged in the legal system fighting a lengthy and messy court instead of being a leader of the opposition, which was why he didn't want to lower himself to their level.

We seriously need a Leverson2, our media in this country is a disgrace and not fit for purpose, particularly after their odious and irresponsible behaviour during this pandemic which has possibly cost tens of thousands of lives.

Starmer just doesn't have the balls to call them out on it, he's too busy being kowtowed and enamoured by them instead, attempting to cut a deal with Murdoch.
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:04 pm
As for his performances - I remember after the govt lost its first Brexit vote he gave a really weak performance even though everyone knew this moment was coming. Terrible. And those Tory defeats were only possible due to divisions in the Tory party, it wasn't as if he played a blinder.
Nonsense. Although I concede Corbyn did on occasion have a few weak PMQ's due to employing a scattergun approach because of lack of time to prepare(thanks mostly to all the internal division and drama within the party occupying way too much of his time), more often than not he completely savaged the Government.

Neither May nor Cameron could ever answer ANY of his questions relying on deflection and backbench braying instead.
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:04 pm
His failure to even speak with female Jewish Labour MPs was unforgiveable and again too easy to paint him as weak on this issue.
He spoke to both Margaret Hodge and Luciana Berger on a multitude of occasions.

Utter nonsense.
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:04 pm
Am I entitled to criticise Corbyn? Yes, I suspect I knocked on more doors to try to get him in power in both 2017 and 2019 than you did but having the door shut in my face to be told 'not voting for Corbyn' I have earned that right.
I didn't say you didn't, I have certain criticisms and frustrations with him myself, if I thought for one second he was the terrorist supporting anti-semite the disgusting lying media falsely painted him as then I too probably would have been one of the people slamming the door in your face.

Fortunately, I research and source my information from fields further than just the bent corrupt media oligarchy run by and for the interests of a handful of tax avoiding, offshoring, non-dom billionaire robber barons.

Our media are completely broken and unfortunately far too many people have entrusted them to do their jobs properly and inform them with the truth.
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by MistressRani »

To say he had a few weak PMQs is understating it. Starmer in recent weeks has forced a number of admissions from The Clown in Chief, yes albeit without the backbench Tory rabble to jeer Johnson on, but a good start nonethless.

I think it was Louise Ellman who he didn't speak to or maybe someone else but it was appalling behaviour by the leader.

I should also mention his lukewarm campaigning for Remain in the referendum is something I cannot forgive him for.
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Bertrand Marx »

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:36 pm
I should also mention his lukewarm campaigning for Remain in the referendum is something I cannot forgive him for.
While I agree that his indecisive Brexit stance was definitely an issue, I find what followed in the party equally if not more unforgivable in that The People’s Vote essentially ensured that Labour had to back a second referendum despite being electoral suicide. The very concept of the People’s Vote is just patronising and condescending- the title itself implies that those who voted Leave in the referendum don’t count as “people” despite the vote already being passed, and I’m saying this as someone who backed and still backs remain. It just polarises and divides an already highly factional party and only serves to further the objectives of elitist internal party politics.

At least in 2017, Labour pledged to respect the referendum result. The results speak for themselves.
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