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Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:05 am
by iank
Some people have made a fascinating suggestion on other forums that the current state of the show and deliberately antagonistic/insulting developments such as a female Master, flying Cybermen and, of course, the beyond infamous CyberBrig, are actually being done on purpose, as it is with other things apparently (DC Comics has been mentioned) to deliberately drive away the older audience who refuse to "get with the program" and still complain about the shoddy scripts, poor characterisation, lack of logic, style over substance etc, so that all that is left is the "easy to please" squee audience who give every episode 10/10. Basically, the older audience are no longer wanted or needed with the show as it is being made today, and are being deliberately targeted to get them to jump ship entirely.

I am not without sympathy for the validity of this suggestion.

Re: Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:12 am
by Genkimonk
It is very very simple. The people who make DW believe the public are thick (which it seems to be true given they keep lapping up their shit) and so make a program to that view.

If anything is to blame it is a decline in education, promotion of pop culture and American ideology ruining the BBC.

Re: Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:35 am
by Ladylusiphur
At a time when the ratings are under increasing scrutiny, i'm not sure even Moffat would be arrogant enough to deliberately ditch a percentage of his audience. I won't say he doesn't enjoy doing things which he knows will irritate the old guard, but not with the intention of getting rid of them en-masse.

Given that even some of the squee-ers hated the finale, it's more likely that he just can't write to save his life any more and has been consumed by his own ego so thinks he can get away with anything. It's sad really, because he proved with his RTD era scripts that he can write good stories.

Rather than doing it to annoy, you get the worrying impression that he really believes these are great ideas!

Re: Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:34 pm
by The Seal
The only scientific way to define the origin of shit is that it always comes from an arsehole of some sort.

Re: Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:44 pm
by Zarius
With Moff, the butterflies are not there anymore, there are no challenges for him, he even admitted in DWM "Listen" was an attempt to prove to himself he could still write (it simply proved he can only still write thirty minutes worth). When you write for Doctor Who, every story is a challenge, sleepwalking through something that has boundless imaginative promise is a dangerous message to send to people who showrun it in future, and it's a poor message to convey to all the poor saps who are watching as baby boomers who will have aspirations of working in tv and presenting us with the same level of "quality".

Re: Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:23 pm
by Mott1
Personally I think that since taking over at the top Moffatt has been going back through the old Who back catalogue of companions, monsters, references etc and trying to put these into his Sherlock-style meandering plotlines, along with RTD-style humour/gobby companion characters and an Eric Saward-like tendency to shock or surprise. He probably thinks he's appealing to everyone by doing this. But the more he does this, the less he seems to be capturing of the spirit of the old show, and unlike Moffatt's surprises Saward's shocks actually meant something - look at the dramatic and brutal end of Adric in Earthshock compared with the 'end' of Danny in Death In Heaven.

It would be a bold move to deliberately alienate the older fans, but what's particularly annoying, if that's the case, is that he doesn't seem to have any idea who he's replacing the old guard with or what their replacements actually want from that show - no sooner had the Master come back as Missy than she's killed off again. Nothing on TV comes across as being so lazy, impulsive or first-drafted as Nu Who.

Re: Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:48 pm
by Mike
I really don't think having a female Master is bad in the slightest, but no, I think Moffat genuinely thinks he's a good writer and that all this stuff is genius.

Re: Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:49 pm
by Glitz
The real fans- no longer required?.......I've felt this way since 2005!

Re: Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:55 pm
by Greywoolfe
Mike wrote:I really don't think having a female Master is bad in the slightest, but no, I think Moffat genuinely thinks he's a good writer and that all this stuff is genius.
It's not the Master's gender that's the issue for me, it's that every sodding time the Master regenerates, he/she has the same cookie-cutter batshit insane personality. If the Doctor can change his, why the hell does the Master have to remain the same?

Re: Older fans - no longer required?

Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:35 pm
by Klade II
Greywoolfe wrote:
Mike wrote:I really don't think having a female Master is bad in the slightest, but no, I think Moffat genuinely thinks he's a good writer and that all this stuff is genius.
It's not the Master's gender that's the issue for me, it's that every sodding time the Master regenerates, he/she has the same cookie-cutter batshit insane personality. If the Doctor can change his, why the hell does the Master have to remain the same?
This. I really don't like the direction they've taken The Master with in the New Series. He's supposed to be an evil mastermind, the Doctor's nemesis and intellectual equal.
But when you just make him cuh-raaaaaaaaazy, it's lazy and boring.