S17 and 18 thoughts?

Moderators: _liam_, Mike

User avatar
Mike
Supreme Dalek
Reactions:
Posts: 7868
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:14 pm
Contact:

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Mike »

Oh, and here's the obligatory 'they all shit on NuPu'.
Es gibt kein richtiges Leben im falschen.
- Theodor W. Adorno
User avatar
Mike
Supreme Dalek
Reactions:
Posts: 7868
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:14 pm
Contact:

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Mike »

Petronella Simpson wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:56 am
But if you had to watch the whole season?

In that case s 15 would offer us a choice of sitting through Underworld and Invasion of Time to get the reward of Fang Rock/Enemy/Fendahl/Sun Makers, and s 17 would put on the table the scenes of Creature that have Adrasta in them, the scenes of Eden with the Mandrells likewise, and every last delicious second of Nimon in exchange for enduring the previously mentioned flaws of City of Death and the scuffed Daleks and faulty continuity of Destiny.

In that scenario, for me it's "roll on season 15".
Agree!
Es gibt kein richtiges Leben im falschen.
- Theodor W. Adorno
Bertrand Marx
Reactions:
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 8:10 pm

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Bertrand Marx »

Petronella Simpson wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:56 am
But if you had to watch the whole season?

In that case s 15 would offer us a choice of sitting through Underworld and Invasion of Time to get the reward of Fang Rock/Enemy/Fendahl/Sun Makers, and s 17 would put on the table the scenes of Creature that have Adrasta in them, the scenes of Eden with the Mandrells likewise, and every last delicious second of Nimon in exchange for enduring the previously mentioned flaws of City of Death and the scuffed Daleks and faulty continuity of Destiny.

In that scenario, for me it's "roll on season 15".
That’s probably a better way of looking at it, because although I enjoy season 17 overall, I don’t think its highs are as high as 15’s which certainly has a more consistent run of good stories early on, and I think the overall novelty of season 17’s parodic tone can wear thin when watched in succession, hence its polarising reputation. That said, I think season 15 has both lower lows (Underworld, Invasion of Time) and higher highs (Fang Rock), though the stories that fit between those outclass the middling stories of season 17.

I guess season 15 is the superior season overall, but I’d rather watch anything from season 17 over Underworld or Invasion of Time.
Bertrand Marx
Reactions:
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 8:10 pm

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Bertrand Marx »

Mike wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:42 am
The discussion above highlights my own feelings about Who post-Hinchcliffe.

Each season has one or two great stories, but that's it.
I’d generally agree, although I’d argue that a few seasons defy that trend occasionally. I think season 22 has three great stories: Attack (unpopular opinion, but I stand by it), Two Doctors and Revelation of the Daleks, whilst Varos and Mark of the Rani are decent in their own right (with the former being particularly interesting conceptually). Timelash is absolute bollocks, of course. Seasons 23 and 24 on the other hand don’t have any.

I’d agree on the rest though, especially with the Davison seasons, which tend to have about one absolute classic, one absolute pile of shite, and a myriad of middling stories in between.
User avatar
Mike
Supreme Dalek
Reactions:
Posts: 7868
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:14 pm
Contact:

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Mike »

Naughtius Maximus wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:44 pm
Mike wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:42 am
The discussion above highlights my own feelings about Who post-Hinchcliffe.

Each season has one or two great stories, but that's it.
I’d generally agree, although I’d argue that a few seasons defy that trend occasionally. I think season 22 has three great stories: Attack (unpopular opinion, but I stand by it), Two Doctors and Revelation of the Daleks, whilst Varos and Mark of the Rani are decent in their own right (with the former being particularly interesting conceptually). Timelash is absolute bollocks, of course. Seasons 23 and 24 on the other hand don’t have any.

I’d agree on the rest though, especially with the Davison seasons, which tend to have about one absolute classic, one absolute pile of shite, and a myriad of middling stories in between.
Yep.

Seasons 18 and 22 are my favourite 80s seasons.
Es gibt kein richtiges Leben im falschen.
- Theodor W. Adorno
User avatar
Rob Filth
Reactions:
Posts: 4656
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Rob Filth »

Mike wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:44 am
Also Tom clearly doesn't give a flying fuck in Fendahl, but I'll let him off, because he'd just been forced to star in the fucking Invisible Enemy which is as shite as they get.

Until Underworld. Fuck me. I've had more exciting shits.
The production order in Season 15 was a bit weird, in fact "Invisible Enemy" was made first, directly after "Talons of Weng Chiang", the production order was as follows:

Invisible Enemy
Horror Of Fang Rock
The Sun Makers
Image of the Fendahl
Underworld
Invasion Of Time

So, given how Tom Bakers acting starts to take a bit of a slide during the end of The Sun Makers, I think it holds up quite well again during Image of the Fendahl which was made afterwards, by the next story in production order Underworld he's acting increasingly disinterested/bored and by the final story Invasion of Time, after the initial first few episodes, he's acting like a complete cunt which he does consistently all the way through to Shada (bar one scene in Pirate Planet) before JNT reigns him in again.
Rallying Against Rani's Repetitive Rhubarb and Rubbish.

Image
User avatar
Rob Filth
Reactions:
Posts: 4656
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Rob Filth »

Mike wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:27 pm
Yep.

Seasons 18 and 22 are my favourite 80s seasons.
I'd probably add Season 21 in with that and you've got the 3 best JNT seasons.
Rallying Against Rani's Repetitive Rhubarb and Rubbish.

Image
User avatar
Rob Filth
Reactions:
Posts: 4656
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Rob Filth »

Naughtius Maximus wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:44 pm
Timelash is absolute bollocks, of course.
Blasphemy!

Timelash is the 80's version of The Krotons.

Shite, but entertaining shite.
Rallying Against Rani's Repetitive Rhubarb and Rubbish.

Image
Bertrand Marx
Reactions:
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 8:10 pm

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Bertrand Marx »

Rob Filth wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:17 pm
Naughtius Maximus wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:44 pm
Timelash is absolute bollocks, of course.
Blasphemy!

Timelash is the 80's version of The Krotons.

Shite, but entertaining shite.
Don’t get me wrong. There are infinitely worse stories in the sense that it does admittedly have entertaining camp appeal (mainly thanks to Darrow’s hilariously hammy turn which brightens it up no end in an ironic way), but it’s objectively very poor.

I prefer the Krotons myself- although it does certainly bare a similar quality in terms of trashy entertainment that doesn’t hold up to much scrutiny at all, I find it more enjoyable overall.
User avatar
Rob Filth
Reactions:
Posts: 4656
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: S17 and 18 thoughts?

Post by Rob Filth »

Naughtius Maximus wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:25 pm
Don’t get me wrong. There are infinitely worse stories in the sense that it does admittedly have entertaining camp appeal (mainly thanks to Darrow’s hilariously hammy turn which brightens it up no end in an ironic way), but it’s objectively very poor.

I prefer the Krotons myself- although it does certainly bare a similar quality in terms of trashy entertainment that doesn’t hold up to much scrutiny at all, I find it more enjoyable overall.
There's more than just Paul Darrow spunking his whole future career down the khazi which is entertaining about Timelash.

It has the Bandrils, singing androids, the beekeepers, penis type morlocks, creepy voiced Borad and the whole fucking lot of them lusting after Peri.

The only thing which really lets it down is the actual shit rubbish Timelash itself which looks like a fucking tinsel lined broom cupboard, the rubbish extended scenes in the TARDIS in part 4 and the somewhat shite flat as a pancake direction, but the rest is highly entertaining for what is admittedly the butt of the barrel of the whole season.

Most other seasons turkeys are far less entertaining.
Rallying Against Rani's Repetitive Rhubarb and Rubbish.

Image
Post Reply