The Labour Party

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MistressRani
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by MistressRani »

Naughtius Maximus wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:42 pm
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:36 pm
I should also mention his lukewarm campaigning for Remain in the referendum is something I cannot forgive him for.
While I agree that his indecisive Brexit stance was definitely an issue, I find what followed in the party equally if not more unforgivable in that The People’s Vote essentially ensured that Labour had to back a second referendum despite being electoral suicide. The very concept of the People’s Vote is just patronising and condescending- the title itself implies that those who voted Leave in the referendum don’t count as “people” despite the vote already being passed, and I’m saying this as someone who backed and still backs remain. It just polarises and divides an already highly factional party and only serves to further the objectives of elitist internal party politics.

At least in 2017, Labour pledged to respect the referendum result. The results speak for themselves.
By 2019 things had polarised. In 2017 we had a policy of constructive ambiguity which meant we squeezed the remain vote. By 2019 views had hardened - leavers wanted a harder brexit, remainers didn't trust Labour. Backing brexit would have destroyed Labour, all roads were damaging.
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Rob Filth
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Rob Filth »

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:36 pm
To say he had a few weak PMQs is understating it. Starmer in recent weeks has forced a number of admissions from The Clown in Chief, yes albeit without the backbench Tory rabble to jeer Johnson on, but a good start nonethless.
Nonsense, Starmer has been politiking at the dispatch box with "gotcha" moments. The media might enjoy such pantomime spin, but it doesn't pinpoint the errors in the Govrnments strategies nor come up with viable solutions. All he's been doing is proving that they spin with his own spin.

If I want to see people playing at spinning tops I'll go visit a nursery. I like something a bit more substantial from my politicians at the despatch box.
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:36 pm
I think it was Louise Ellman who he didn't speak to or maybe someone else but it was appalling behaviour by the leader.
This is too vague to take seriously, you're not sure of the details of the behaviour but it was appalling anyway?

Please Rani, you can do better than this.
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:36 pm
I should also mention his lukewarm campaigning for Remain in the referendum is something I cannot forgive him for.
What do you disagree with in Corbyn's EU Referendum speech then?

https://labourlist.org/2016/04/europe-n ... on-the-eu/

Corbyn was one of the most hard working MP's campaigning for Remain and came up with the most persuasive argument for Remaining within the EU. I was considering voting to Leave before I saw and heard Corbyn's argument which the media woefully ignored.

Alan Johnson was terrible, all he did was bellow "LIAR!" at Farage repeatedly instead of offering any persuasive argument.
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Bertrand Marx
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Bertrand Marx »

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:00 pm
Naughtius Maximus wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:42 pm
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:36 pm
I should also mention his lukewarm campaigning for Remain in the referendum is something I cannot forgive him for.
While I agree that his indecisive Brexit stance was definitely an issue, I find what followed in the party equally if not more unforgivable in that The People’s Vote essentially ensured that Labour had to back a second referendum despite being electoral suicide. The very concept of the People’s Vote is just patronising and condescending- the title itself implies that those who voted Leave in the referendum don’t count as “people” despite the vote already being passed, and I’m saying this as someone who backed and still backs remain. It just polarises and divides an already highly factional party and only serves to further the objectives of elitist internal party politics.

At least in 2017, Labour pledged to respect the referendum result. The results speak for themselves.
By 2019 things had polarised. In 2017 we had a policy of constructive ambiguity which meant we squeezed the remain vote. By 2019 views had hardened - leavers wanted a harder brexit, remainers didn't trust Labour. Backing brexit would have destroyed Labour, all roads were damaging.
It would have had least given them a clearer Brexit stance. My grandparents (one of whom was once part of Labour, although sadly passed away a few months back) knew quite a few former Labour voters who defected to the Tories purely as a means of getting Brexit done as they were sick of the whole charade. Although I don’t even really have an issue with the stance Labour even took on principle, most people I spoke to who hadn’t read the manifesto had no fucking clue what their stance was. It’s less a case of backing Brexit and more fundamentally a case of backing a bloody democratic vote. I wasn’t happy with the result myself, but it’s what the country voted for, and I wouldn’t patronise those who voted Leave by claiming that a reversal of Brexit accounted to a “People’s vote”.

As for the polarisation, that was exacerbated no end by the Lib Dems and Jo Swinson being extremely naive and alienating through wanting to reverse Brexit altogether and the Tories who were clearly in pursuit of a hard Brexit, so yes. They didn’t help matters in the slightest.
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Rob Filth
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Rob Filth »

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:00 pm
By 2019 things had polarised. In 2017 we had a policy of constructive ambiguity which meant we squeezed the remain vote. By 2019 views had hardened - leavers wanted a harder brexit, remainers didn't trust Labour. Backing brexit would have destroyed Labour, all roads were damaging.
They wouldn't have lost anywhere near as many seats by backing a soft Brexit where we retained Single Market and Custom Union access.

Two Thirds of Labours marginals were all Leave voting constituencies!

The 2nd Vote Brexit Policy strong armed by Starmer was electoral strategic suicide, but I suspect him and his blairite chums knew that anyway from studying the electoral modelling done beforehand.
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Lemon Seal »

Thicko provincial Northerners have let this country down twice in the space of a few years.
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MistressRani
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by MistressRani »

Rob Filth wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:08 pm
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:00 pm
By 2019 things had polarised. In 2017 we had a policy of constructive ambiguity which meant we squeezed the remain vote. By 2019 views had hardened - leavers wanted a harder brexit, remainers didn't trust Labour. Backing brexit would have destroyed Labour, all roads were damaging.
They wouldn't have lost anywhere near as many seats by backing a soft Brexit where we retained Single Market and Custom Union access.

Two Thirds of Labours marginals were all Leave voting constituencies!

The 2nd Vote Brexit Policy strong armed by Starmer was electoral strategic suicide, but I suspect him and his blairite chums knew that anyway from studying the electoral modelling done beforehand.
A soft Brexit wouldn't have won Brexiters over and would have split the party.
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Rob Filth »

MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:53 pm
A soft Brexit wouldn't have won Brexiters over and would have split the party.
You make the mistaken assumption that all Brexiteers were the idiotic loons of Farage or fuelled by his lies.

Many were not opposed to having SOME access or dealings with the EU, they just wanted to be outside of the political Union like Norway or Belgium or something, rather than the Belarus type fucking luncacy sold by Farage and the Tories.

I rather fear looking at the uncompromising idiocy of some of the Remainers who made me feel ashamed that I had voted for Remain in the first place it would have been them who would not have accepted a soft Brexit despite the fact our status with the EU economically and tradewise would've been left virtually unchanged.

Yes it would've split the Labour Party, the Blairites were all threatening to defect to Jo Swindons bunch of Tory enablers if Corbyn didn't appease their electorally stupid and suicidal Policy of a 2nd Vote which completely told the electorate to "fuck off" with its democracy denying deficitness.

That was Corbyns really big and tragically fatal mistake, by appeasing a bunch of backstabbing cunts who didn't want the party to win any election with him as leader and showed nothing but the Blairites utter contempt toward the membership. McDonnells response disappointed me, he should've grown a backbone and let them all go to Swinsons losers instead of compromising to their cuntishness for the sake of "party unity" because now we subsequently have a party who I neither want to vote for or want in power.

In fact although I never would, I'd rather vote Tory, those Blairite cunts disgust me so much with their behaviour during Corbyn tenure.

They could not respect a democratically elected leader nor a democratically won vote for a second and that is because they fundamentally do not understand the basic founding principles of what the Labour Party was built upon because they're all so kowtowed by fucking Murdoch.

I'm sorry, but power for powers sake is simply not good enough and Starmers whitewashing and kicking into the long grass of the internal report disgusts me. They can piss off, bunch of corrupt greasy pole climbing disingenuous bastards.

If I bother voting at all next General Election it will probably be Green, a complete and utter waste of time.
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by MistressRani »

Lemon Seal wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:06 pm
Thicko provincial Northerners have let this country down twice in the space of a few years.
Not true but if so they were misled by crooked London tossers.
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by MistressRani »

Rob Filth wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:40 am
MistressRani wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:53 pm
A soft Brexit wouldn't have won Brexiters over and would have split the party.
You make the mistaken assumption that all Brexiteers were the idiotic loons of Farage or fuelled by his lies.

Many were not opposed to having SOME access or dealings with the EU, they just wanted to be outside of the political Union like Norway or Belgium or something, rather than the Belarus type fucking luncacy sold by Farage and the Tories.

I rather fear looking at the uncompromising idiocy of some of the Remainers who made me feel ashamed that I had voted for Remain in the first place it would have been them who would not have accepted a soft Brexit despite the fact our status with the EU economically and tradewise would've been left virtually unchanged.

Yes it would've split the Labour Party, the Blairites were all threatening to defect to Jo Swindons bunch of Tory enablers if Corbyn didn't appease their electorally stupid and suicidal Policy of a 2nd Vote which completely told the electorate to "fuck off" with its democracy denying deficitness.

That was Corbyns really big and tragically fatal mistake, by appeasing a bunch of backstabbing cunts who didn't want the party to win any election with him as leader and showed nothing but the Blairites utter contempt toward the membership. McDonnells response disappointed me, he should've grown a backbone and let them all go to Swinsons losers instead of compromising to their cuntishness for the sake of "party unity" because now we subsequently have a party who I neither want to vote for or want in power.

In fact although I never would, I'd rather vote Tory, those Blairite cunts disgust me so much with their behaviour during Corbyn tenure.

They could not respect a democratically elected leader nor a democratically won vote for a second and that is because they fundamentally do not understand the basic founding principles of what the Labour Party was built upon because they're all so kowtowed by fucking Murdoch.

I'm sorry, but power for powers sake is simply not good enough and Starmers whitewashing and kicking into the long grass of the internal report disgusts me. They can piss off, bunch of corrupt greasy pole climbing disingenuous bastards.

If I bother voting at all next General Election it will probably be Green, a complete and utter waste of time.
You've rewritten history - the debate had become polarised and many moderate Brexit voters had been convinced that anything other than a No Deal Brexit was a betrayal. A soft Brexit had become labelled as not a proper Brexit due to Farage's sophistry.

I'm sad you'd be prepared to vote Tory, I never would.
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Rob Filth »

MistressRani wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:54 am
You've rewritten history - the debate had become polarised and many moderate Brexit voters had been convinced that anything other than a No Deal Brexit was a betrayal. A soft Brexit had become labelled as not a proper Brexit due to Farage's sophistry.
The debate had been polarized by the media, yes I agree.

That is because they under no circumstances wanted to entertain the possibility of a Corbyn-led soft Brexit or admit that such a possibility could be a feasible option.

Many middle ground Remainers and Leavers were completely left out of the debate like we didn't exist and ignored by the media.

It's kind of rich the fucking BBC and Guardian consistently hankering about so-called "moderate" politics, when the moderate view toward the EU referendum which would have been to respect the result but have a soft Brexit was completely fucking ignored, or dismissed as if not an option to consider under any circumstance.

They were just catering for the polarised extremists in both camps.

Farage actually kicked off the EU Ref campaign by endorsing a soft Brexit, the media shamefully never challenged him on that after Leave won the vote.

Our media are not fit for purpose.
MistressRani wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:54 am
I'm sad you'd be prepared to vote Tory, I never would.
I wouldn't, but if I was forced to choose between those cunts or Starmers cunts I'd probably choose Johnsons cunts because at least they don't pretend to be anything other than cunts.

As I say, I'm more likely to vote Green or not bother at all next election.

Starmers Blairite saboteurs have effectively rendered myself and possibly as much as another 2 million of the electorate politically homeless again.
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